Part of the Do'a Iftitah

"Verily my solats, my ibadah, my life and my death I surrender to Almighty Allah, Creator and Lord of all the worlds. Never will I associate anything with Him. So am I commanded and I am of those who are Muslims."

The Muslim Bloggers Alliance

The Muslim Bloggers Alliance
Bringing Muslim Bloggers Together

Wednesday, September 29, 2010

Dialogue between Ben Eder, a New York Pastor and Mahaguru58

Ben Eder September 29 at 7:31pm Report
Dear Zainol,

I have been reading with interest your posts about a Christian convert from Islam who has been insulting Islam. I guess I should find the "You Tube" clip, as I do not know what he said.

While your being upset is understandable, what I and many in the West have difficulty understanding is the Muslim need for revenge (especially in cases like this). Is this man threatened by death because he was a former Muslim and is therefore considered a betrayer of the faith?

Also, in Christianity the Bible says "Vengeance is mine, says the Lord." If this man has insulted God, isn't God able to judge him and take care of him in God's own time? Why must human beings take it upon themselves to exact this vengeance?

Having said that, I think we who are Christians need to spend more time proclaiming Christ rather than insulting or denigrating other religions. My desire is to be like Jesus to you and all Muslims.

Your Brother,

Zainol Abideen September 29 at 8:11pm
Dear Ben,

The Blessed Final Messenger of Allah is not someone whom we take to be as any other being.

For those of us Muslims who dedicate our lives to the Cause of Islam, the Blessed Final and Greatest Messenger of Almighty Allah can't be taken in vain.

Please refer to :

None is a true and proper Muslim if he or she fails to love the Blessed Messenger more than even their own selfs or over their parents?

Thus, for us to stand idly by and watch this blasphemer mock, ridicule and insult the Greatest Messenger of God would be tantamount to be an accomplice to that accursed one.

We do differ in our perspectives concerning our faith, dear Ben and I do not expect you to really understand as to why Muslims get so worked up whenever the person of the Final Prophet of Allah is put to such ridicule by those who have no true knowledge of who he was and what he stands for in our Islamic faith?

Yet deep in my heart, I have a feeling that given the right information and presented with the actual facts of who Muhammad the Unlettered Prophet really is, you too would come to understand why Muslims revere him, the Chosen One whom God Almighty Himself honors with the best of salutations and felicitations over the entire Creation?

If you have been reading my work over the years, you'll realize that I never touch on the faiths of others except having responded to a cheeky reposte by a guy who calls himself as Sean-the man- blogspot who recommended Non Muslims here in Malaysia to carry a 'Hell No! I'm not a Muslim card' to sort of prevent being declared to be a Muslim by what he claims to be overzealous religious officials here in Malaysia?

I joked with another friend of mine that such cards can get lost or misplaced. Why not have a tattoo proclaiming the same thing? Tattoos aren't forbidden in Non Muslim beliefs.

That jibe by myself was blown out of proportions by those whose agenda in blogosphere is to make a mountain out of a molehill and they branded me and my friend as Muslim extremists! :P

Those who know me truly can testify that I'm nothing of the sort. I just love my faith with the deepest of conviction and will never allow anyone to demean it.


We are brothers in this worship of Almighty God.

It is only a thin fine line that divides us.

My love and respect for you sir.

Surat Al-'Ahzab [verse 56] - Indeed, Allah confers blessing upon the Prophet, and His angels [ask Him to do so]. O you who have believed, ask [ Allah to confer] blessing upon him and ask [ Allah to grant him] peace.
Ben Eder September 29 at 8:26pm Report
In Christianity, neither are we to defame the name of God. "You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain" (the Second Commandment).

It's interesting how Christians and Muslims view judgment and retribution. When Jesus was on the cross, he was scorned, mocked, and ridiculed. Rather than condemning them, he prayed, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." Furthermore, Jesus commands us to "Love your enemies" and "Do good to those who harm you."

It should be the goal of every Christian to follow the teachings of Christ. Sometimes we fail in this regard. But I do know that Muslims and Christians can be friends, dialog together, and work together in God's name.

I truly respect the Muslims for many things, especially your desire to uphold God's name. Many in the West are secular, hedonistic, and atheistic. They do not give God the honor and respect he deserves. Therefore, I pray that I give others a good witness and bring the love of Jesus to them.
Zainol Abideen September 29 at 8:33pm
We who are Muslims love all prophets and messengers of God. None is a true Muslim if he or she insults any of God's prophets or messengers. That is why despite such insults by those who abuse your faith by misrepresenting it, we Muslims do not reciprocate likewise!
Ben Eder September 29 at 8:38pm Report
Thank you, Zainol; wise words to begin my day! God's peace be upon you!


ahong said...

Dear Mahaguru,

I beg to differ when Christians says that in Christianity, when a Christian turns apostate, they shall not kill the apostate but to love him?

If we read the Bible, Old Testament, Deuteronomy 13:6-9:
"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."

The same thing also in Deuteronomy 17:3-5 where apostates should be stoned to death.

Some Christians says that they dont have to follow the Old Testament (cause Paul said so), they should read Matthew 5:17-18 and Matthew 23:1-3 where Jesus in the Bible says otherwise. Jesus himself approve to the killing of apostates.

If you believe in Paul more than Jesus then you can also read Romans 1:20-32 where Paul also agree that in Christianity apostate should be put to death.

The verse about loving your enemy is not about loving the real enemy like hugging them etc. If you read Matthew 5:42-44, you will get the answer.

This is ONLY my personal view from reading the bible.

Ariji said...

Ben Elder:
Is this man threatened by death because he was a former Muslim and is therefore considered a betrayer of the faith?

Please refer to the Koran, Chapter 2, verse 256, here is the link;

Sahih International
There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

Muhsin Khan
There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.

There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.

Yusuf Ali
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

Anonymous said...

Assalamualaikum Mahaguru58,

I guess Ben doesn't know that in Al Quran,there are chapters named 'Jesus' and 'Mary'.I would like to ask Ben to read these chapters.

Dear Ben,we Muslims are taught by our Prophet to believe in Jesus (but not as a son of God or God himself incarnated in human flesh,but just a great prophet of God) and if we don't believe in him,our belief in Islam and the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is not complete.

So would you let other people disparage someone who is supporting you? My view is that every knowledgable Christian shld defend anyone who insult Muhammad(pbuh).

To Muslims,I'm asking for us not to react excessively as Allah swt shall take care those who insult Muhammad(pbuh) as every prophet since Noah(pbuh) to Jesus to Muhammad had been mocked and insulted by their people. We should read Quran 15:94-99 and Quran 3:186.

Nevertheless,I would like to thank Mahaguru58 for lodging the police report against the priest as his act would create unwanted tension between Muslims & Christians in the country.

Peace be upon you.

Anonymous said...

Correction on my previous comment on the first passage I said about chapters named Jesus and Mary.It was chapter Mary,that tells us about Jesus.Apologize for the mistake=)

Zakir said...


Well said mamu. May Allah bless you and all moslem. What I can see, the non-moslems recently are so daring to questions this and that pertaining to not only our national constitutions but also breach into our faith and religion is nothing more than because we, malaysian moslems are NOT UNITE. Despite to the number that moslems/malays in Malaysia proportionate the majority, but we have to accept the fact that we are minority in many terms, and the phenomena become worst lately. And the kuffars are just awaiting this golden moment, exacerbate the disunity amongst moslems. To me, dispute in political thought is acceptable, but, when it come to our faith, religion, God, all moslems MUST unite and defend, in which to what I observe, this reaction do not happen significantly resulting with more daring incidence occurs. So, what's next? We support you mamu and again, Allah bless you.